(00:03) welcome to the Via stoa podcast your path to Tranquility this is the podcast on stoicism brought to you by via.com where we discuss this ancient philosophy of living the good life hosted by Bryce Brandon and Benny we are here to help you apply stoic wisdom to your everyday life no matter what obstacles you're facing whether it's work relationship issues or just the general ups and downs of Life stoicism has something to offer us all oh I'm great Benny how are you doing this morning yeah I'm doing good well it's
(00:45) evening here more less so we are separate in that location but we are not separate in Minds you know we so minds are always going and I just finished some books here and I'm figur let's talk about some storyed books today what do you think about that oh a great topic love it let's do it do you do you also get a lot of people asking you questions like hey what do I want to read where do I start with when I get those questions you know when I go to other podcast and when I speak to people how about you do
(01:15) you do you get those questions and I think that that's something that would be a great way to start to see where we can start people off if they want to go into this stoic journey and want to pick up some books but do you get that a lot and what is your usual answer when when someone someone asks like hey where do I start when I want to read some sto books yeah no I get that a lot I think it is you know it's a it's a topic you know as people have started to become more aware of stoicism um you know it's
(01:41) I feel like it's kind of the next iteration you know at first you you kind of are comfortable with listening to it or or maybe you know listening to some wonderful podcast on it like this one uh but then you know you want to start to dig into it yourself you want to get into the meat potatoes yourself and I think that's when you know it's when people make that transition they say okay I really want to dig into this now where are the books where the where the written word that I need to to kind of
(02:06) consume um and I think for me you know I like to at least I guess I'll share my story of what how I discovered stoicism and and the journey that I went on and then you know add in some some flavor for what how I might want to change that um but I started you know I first heard it on a podcast it was Tim Ferris podcast um I Heard Ryan holiday speaking on there promoting one of his books and and that's how I became aware of stoicism and started listening to the Daily stoic podcast which is um Ryan holiday's podcast and uh and then uh
(02:41) eventually after some time then picked up his book so uh started with his his book uh the obstacle is the way was was the first book I read um and then which does talk about that concept that you know kind of as stoics we we we welcome the challenge we we go you know we work through the challenge um so that was very poignant for me at the time when I was starting to read books like that concept was something that I wanted to dig into more um so I think that's one thing to to mention is is that there's
(03:12) no right way necessarily to do this it's not a requirement that you read one book before another um do what feels best to you because at the end of the day that's where you're going to get the most value um so I started with the obstacle as the way and then you know Ryan holiday does have some other books the e ego is the enemy and Stillness is the key um I ended up picking up those as well and reading those but again they were in moments in my life when I said you know what I really need some Stillness right now let me dig into
(03:42) Stillness as the key um so that's where I I I went and I actually didn't dive into the ancient text for a while it was it was probably a year or two into my study of stoicism where I was basically just consuming Ryan holidays content um and then once I got to to I lived in Athens for six months um during during lockdown during covid so when I was in Athens I said well I I got to get some stoic stoic books while I'm here so I picked up meditations and that's the first time that I sat down and read
(04:12) meditations kind of all the way through um so which kind of added like an extra layer to my understanding of stoicism like not only to read the ancient text so the text written you know 2,000 years ago but to also read it from you know with with meditations in Marcus aurelus it is his private Journal so it's him talking to himself um which I do a lot of I talk to myself all the time I'm in my own head having conversations with myself about whatever so like that sort of uh I guess that delivery method was
(04:45) really nice for me too so I really enjoyed uh meditations from like just reading it and enjoying it as like you're kind of peering behind the curtain of this of this world leader uh so th those that was where I started to get into the the ancient text um and then started to you know even pick up other books but we'll we'll get into that some of the other more modern-day stoic authors uh here in a minute but what about you Benny where did you start like what how did your journey come around as far as like
(05:14) reading stoic books so I was originally never really a big reader I never really read a lot of books and I just say who I was but then after like when my you know my relationship and things went downhill a little bit I I you know I spend more time with myself and just you know going through things and one of my colleagues and close friends he was an aid reader right very much into literature so he started giving me books and I started reading science fiction and novels and all that stuff and we talked about philosophy and I always you know I
(05:48) always say like I diagnosed myself with an existential crisis I was like I'm going through something here so and he said like there's a really good book by by Orson I can't remember exactly it's name James Orson it's called at least it's called like introduction into existentialism uh and the great part of that book is that it kind of um um compare different philosophies existentialism AB absurdism I think there was epicurian ISM in there as well but also the stoics so for that's where
(06:17) I really had my first introduction like really like more aware right where you're consciously aware like I'm seeking for something and that's where those words where jumped at me and um so I after that I felt compelled to read more so I started looking for books and I was say you know I came to Marcus radius because when you Google sto books you see Marcus radius and I figured that's where I want to start I had no idea what it was so first time I opened a book I like wait these are very short
(06:44) little things right I was expecting like this this deep philosophical book and as I was reading it I was like you know I wasn't really making a lot of sense of it because it is kind of his personal thoughts which which I love right I loved Rome and I've been I've visited Rome a few times and so I I love that time period and that kind of world so for me that had multiple layers to me as you know the historic view but also the personal View and the ST view so that's kind of where I started you know my
(07:12) journey and then I went to to I think it was epic te I I I pretty much tackled the the the Ancients first so I took a little bit of a different approach to you more of maybe also a little bit of vanity he's like oh I got to go there right it's got to you know even if I don't really understand exactly what's going on let's just read and first right so I did that I made my notes and I figured ah now now I understand everything um and then I went to to the more contemporary writers so I took
(07:39) maybe I I to be honest I didn't read Ryan holiday like until like maybe maybe two three years ago like just like just really recently I figured okay if I if I want to have if I want to be able to talk about him then I should read one of his books at least right the Obstacle of the way like you you know me Brandon I'm not a very big fan of his writing we can talk about that in maybe another episode or whatever but do respect what he does but it's just not for me so I picked up U I think it was MIM puch's
(08:10) book how to be historic which was really I think I even read that before son if I'm not mistaken why because it's it's the it's and that book and and you you read it just recently I think or just like at least we read it or whatever recently and and um I like that a conversation that he has with epicus right so he talks about these things and he uses excerpts from epicus text got like oh what would he say and like is kind of like pointing his finger at it was like oh you should be doing this and
(08:43) that's why I for me for example one of the ancient stoies that I like and I like to hear your point of view as well like my favorite one is epic tus because he's saying like hey Benny you should be you know you know a little bit more like this Stern teacher and that's what I need right where Marcus Rus is more like a bit more romantic in his way of looking at it and philosophical and appus is really telling you you know be be more mindful of what you do so so for me it was kind of that that Journey that
(09:11) I took I figured like okay where do I go and some and I some of the books I just went into the to the library and it's like hey that's a nice sto book so I think I read the senica's dialogues and essays first and then I read Mason's Rufus um um Michelle the man we can talk what that later it's not really like the ancient sto but those were the books that I read and and um and one of the other ones and we talk about that as well is the the the guy to The Good Life by William Irvine those were kind of
(09:43) that was my start would I start the same way I think that that's something that we can talk about as well but least that's how I started but maybe if someone wants to start maybe now I would give some different um sequence of how to read this books well I mean don't leave us hanging Benny what is the if you were to go back in time and kind of give yourself sort of like a three to five book reading list what do you think that would be maybe and it wouldn't be too drastically different but maybe it would be the
(10:16) sequence would be different for example I read how did things like Roman Empire quite quite late but later on in the Journey the book by Donald Robertson and and I think it is interesting to see some of these writers they connected to the Ancients so how I would read it now and either you know I would probably start with Marcus radies again but then read how to think like Roman Emperor because that really connects with Marcus you learned more about his history more about philosophy more about why think certain way so having kind of like an
(10:48) ancient and a contemporary mix would be nice you know for example epicas and and then last we pick the v's book how to be stoic then you have Sena with I of breakfast with sen are dying another day sen at the court of Nero kind of having that kind of mix I think that would be a little bit nicer but I think at the end of the day um and I reread a lot of those books afterwards again just kind of like oh wait now I get it more right I don't know like what would you kind of if if if you were to advise someone how
(11:19) to read these books what would you say like we you shared your journey but what what would be the the perfect sequence for you if you have to do it again yeah so for me um I did you know and like you said like it sounds like in the beginning for you you kind of started to dive into the ancient text more um I was a bit averse to doing that in the beginning I think I I had picked up one I don't even remember which one and when I say picked up I mean I think I got a stample on Kindle or something right and
(11:52) I started reading it and I was just like uh this isn't for me like there just the language The Way It Was Written like it just didn't resonate the same way that you know I was because I was already getting stoicism from the daily stoic podcast so I was like that stuff resonates with me that stuff makes sense to me but like what I was reading and maybe I think it was senica's letters but I'm not certain but what I was reading I was just like ah this is just like the the connections weren't
(12:17) happening as easily for me um and so I really stuck with with Ryan holidays stuff for a while so I guess on one hand I do like that though like I think he does while I agree with you and like some of your perspectives where you're like oh he's writing for more of an American audience I do think that's true now that you brought my my attention to that um and I can understand how that would be you know a bit strange for you know a European or or someone from another country picking it up um but I just because of like the way he writes
(12:50) where he he talks about a concept and then he relates it to the historical reference like I just like the historical stories and the references so I still like obstacles the way as as as kind of a first jumping off point at the starting point um but then I wish I went into the ancient text and the other modern day writers sooner because yeah like you mentioned I just started reading the more modern-day stoics I kind of went from Ryan holiday to the Ancients and now I'm getting back into like other modern day writers outside of
(13:21) Ryan holiday um so I I the guy to the good life was by far by William Irvine was for me one of the most uh the books that really gave me like I think the best overview the best understanding of like not only uh ways to incorporate these these sort of teachings into our life but what the outcome is afterwards like once you do this this is kind so I think it's a good uh one to start with because it gives you kind of almost like the road map of of what you're going to see in front of you as you keep moving
(13:53) forward um so I really like that one being earlier um meditations being earlier um I think to me meditations is uh the book and maybe that's just my own bias because like I I do find Marcus Marcus is realus is definitely the of the three stoics the one that I find I I more resonate with epicus is one that I go to when I know I need that sort of speaking I need someone to talk to me that way like I've definitely been like I feel like I'm in a place right now where I need to read more epicus like I need
(14:26) that sort of he's more raw about the like you're supposed to be doing thing and maybe I need that kind of you know kicking the ass a little bit um so I I like I like epic tus sometimes like I know when I need to go to him but Marcus is where I I hang out the most uh so and then yeah I think discourses is another one that I think is a really good uh one to start with or at least get get under your belt early to read early um and and then how to be stoic by by masop Luchi is I think another really good one so
(15:00) those would kind of be my five as as far as like so you're getting some some ancients you're getting some modern day in there as well um but I think that's a good place to start and then just with of that you know then where do you want to go next and I think that's the beauty of is we're not you're not going to run out of text that's the fun part about this is you always have more there's always something else to read so you know what makes sense to you and are you you know also be aware and conscious of
(15:28) because like I was aw because I wasn't a reader at all before I started picking up stoicism but it was the it was the way that Ryan holiday connected the themes with historical references that allowed me to be like oh I want to read this book because a worst case scenario even if I got nothing from the stoicism side of things I was still just learning about history which made me happy so if you know you're like that then you know read like that and or like you know for example like the conversation like
(15:59) um how to be stoic he's having a conversation with epicus in in the book like that's an interesting style of writing versus more of like you know how to think like a Roman Emperor is a little different like it just the the style of writing is different the method in which they're presenting the information is different so I think that's always something I like to think about too is is what do I feel how am I feeling right now what sort of book do I want to dive into and would you say that that um you know the guy to the good Li
(16:29) but will marvine would you say that that made the biggest impact to you in stoicism or would you still attribute that to like who would you say from the books and the text who would made it who would have made the biggest influence on on you would you would you say that that would be Ryan holiday because he was the the kind of the First with the podcast and they spoke to you in the b or when you look at that at the journey now like who who you say like this this was really that that sparked at all that's a great question Benny um I
(16:58) would say that that I mean at the end of the day Ryan holiday has put out more con more books and between the books and the podcast and the daily I read the daily stoic every day so I mean I'm just consuming his content literally every day um so he's you know as far as amount Ryan holiday no question but I will say like after reading the guy to the good life uh for me I don't know what I think it was that kind of spark that that took us took me took me to the next level of like before I was a student and now I'm
(17:37) attempting to like put a framework around this and educate others about this of what this philosophy means and I think that's what a guide to the good life did for me because it kind of is the whole picture of like hey you're struggling with this you're dealing with these challenges well if you can you can apply these methods and these Concepts and when you do you get thislike and like so it gives you that kind of full sort of three-step process um which is what someone who's trying to to bring
(18:08) these these Concepts to people and educate people it would want to do right you'd want to kind of show people like why do you want to learn this stuff well this is why um so I think that's what the guide sort of good life did for me is kind of put that framework around it uh to and I think it's really just the next iteration of my journey in stoicism like it started with just a soul Journey which was just by myself I spoke with no one about it like there were there were good friends of mine and family members
(18:34) that had no clue that I even knew that I was studying stoicism every single day because it was a very private thing I did and then it became a bit more public right I started to speak on it with like some other people but not too many and now we we speak about it every week on the internet so um you know I I I think this that that these books are you know they hit in the right time and they they still that kind of void that you might be might be searching for and in this moment when I read Guide to the good
(19:04) life it was it was well suited for me yeah that's great and I think what what what A Book Like Guide to the good life does it it it connects the the teachings right because that's the difficult thing when you read someone like Marcus Rus and epicus it is sometimes quite difficult to get the actual practical application out of it because you read it and it's like oh this boot is lovely but how do I apply it right how do I use this in my life and and that's what I like for example about how to think like a Roman Emperor
(19:35) where where Donna Robertson uses his his therapeutic you know the the the experience that he has as a CBT practitioner and he shows the link between CBT and stoicism which I find fascinating right that a modern day therapy is is so influenced by an ancient philosophy but he also brings it down into these practical um things so it's kind of like a philosophical self-help book and that's what I feel like the the William Irvine does as well like he shows like okay this is the dichotomy of control or he calls it the
(20:09) triom of control which would be another a good conversation to have about that that thing right but he also says like this is how you apply right this is how it works or for example the the the the when he talks about being athlete right you can prepare all the things that you want but in the match then it's where you have to surrender to Faith right doing all the preparation whether you win or lose that shouldn't be the that shouldn't that should be irrelevant so those kind of examples is what I really
(20:37) like because that's kind of the eye openness that you don't really get from the ancient text per se and like you mentioned you know you think you started with senica right and I have the same when sometimes when I read senica it's like what what's going on you dude like where you going with this because he just like kind of like feels like he gets stuck on the paper just writing more so that's why I like to to read those kind of um you know sometimes it's like you know Marcus is for dummies
(21:05) sometimes that's what I feel like I need right it's like could someone explain this to me and that's why I like to to combine them with those books so for me like as you have with Marcus redes I have that with with epitus right as I mentioned like he was the the kind of voice that I needed to hear and and I think like if people want to start with epices you know you have the discourses and the handbook and some fragments maybe the handbook the incred would be a nice way to start with epeus then read
(21:32) masm Puchi and then maybe go into the discourses I think that that would be a good way to kind of start you know to ease yourself in let's read some raw atius you know and then just go to let's get an explainer and then take the discourses because there's so many of them anyway so it takes and and we're doing summaries on V stoa so if you want I think the first first book Is Almost is almost there every every discourse so if you want to read a little bit of a summary you can go to v.com and check
(21:59) them out but I think that for me that's the that's the mix and yeah like once I read you know Donald Roberts him and Donald Robertson and we had him here on the show and we had him on some of the spaces it's also nice to see that these people right these books are so accessible and you know that they are still here and you can read it in the books like I've emailed with red M Puch and and Bryce Adam on on another interview that he did so so nice that they actually apply this stuff and so on that's what you read right they write it
(22:32) because they feel like their value is there I think that that and I guess that that's also what what you see with Ryan holiday right when you watch his videos and when you watch his content you see that this is part of his life and then and and he can face it so and one one other thing that I think you mentioned is really important that again when we talk about any of these things you need to find your own way of doing it and the same thing with reading right so we can give these books and yeah just look at
(22:57) them and if they speak to you and if this is the part of your life where you need to hear this kind of message or that kind of message I think that that's also there is not really a right or wrong right to start with any of these books they could just say and if you stumble on one of them and you say hey this book I don't even know what this means but let's read it and he these are the sto so but I think if I had to start again yet that would be kind of the mix that I would have but at the end of the
(23:21) day I'm super happy that I actually started reading these books they changed my life a lot oh that's great um yeah you know I think I like that you brought up how to think like a Roman Emperor again because that was a good one too when I read that um because of that connection between uh psychology and and um and philosophy you know I have a I have a minor in Psychology from from college so I'm very interested in that um so it was cool because that was something I didn't know about stoicism until I was probably you
(23:53) know four or five years down the road that that even had some sort of anchoring in in therapy um and I love also talking like I have a I have my own therapist that I I meet with regularly and then um and I and I it was so interesting being able to talk to him like he didn't know what stoicism was but I when I bring up you know what is it Robert ell uh Ellis is it Robert Ellis yeah Ellis the last name um I think it's Robert but either way Ellis who the guy who founded CBT you know he connects it back to to to seism and and
(24:26) I it's just fun to like kind of talk with with their just about that because a lot you know a lot of the times it's not always well known that these that these tactics and these sort of things that are used in therapy are actually 2,000 years old um so I think yeah how to think like a Roman ENT is really good and I like what you mentioned too that idea of kind of like uh pairing books together because that was what I did is is once I I guess felt like I was able to dig into the Ancients well then I just started
(24:54) reading a lot of the ancient text but I do maybe wish like that would be an interesting journey to kind of have that back and forth to read the ancient text come back to a modern text read the ancient like that sounds almost a little bit more interesting it may be a little bit easier to digest too because you know sometimes those those letters can get long and those letters can can can uh you know they're they're taxing to read sometimes so uh no great points there are there any sort of books that we want to add
(25:23) into this list that maybe aren't necessarily strictly sto you wouldn't find in the philosophy section of the bookstore um you know and I'll I'll I can start if you have if you want to take a minute to think about it but um because I do feel like and that's the beauty of stoicism like it is a philosophy of the people it is a philosophy of the streets so I do feel like that there is um just stories out there that represent uh stoic ideals and stoic teachings so um two for me that that stand out are um
(25:59) you know in endurance which is a book about um these these group in the early 1900s uh Shackleton was this Captain this this boat captain and he wanted to take his his crew through the Arctic Circle uh which hadn't been done before and there's just a whole story about what they had to go through and the challenges they had to face and how he managed those challenges and how he dealt with them um it's by no means a stoic book I don't even think that he doesn't mention stoicism as as far as I
(26:29) know he didn't read stoicism but the book itself has a lot of stoic kind of ideals in it and you get to read that in real time you kind of see them applied so to speak um and then the other one is is one that we bring up a lot on the podcast and on our spaces and stuff but his man search for meaning by Victor Frankle so Victor Frankle was in the concentration camps during World War II and he was a doctor there so just what he saw from his patients um he has a a psychology background he's he's a psychotherapist but he obviously was one
(27:02) of the few people who had the medical training to care for the the people in these concentration camps so he was given that responsibility and ended up writing a book about what he saw which was extremely eye openening and very much um you know showcases some of these kind of stoic ideals and things like that um but is there any book like that with with you Benny that kind of jumps out as as maybe not being strictly stoic but but having but representing the ideals of stoicism yeah and I and I you know maybe some honorable mentions there as well
(27:35) like Cicero Cicero's speeches and all these things are great to read as well it's not necessarily stoic he adhered more to like the academics but um I think the academics or like at least the Skeptics maybe at that time it was more like towards the Skeptics but um and for me one of the the ones I really liked reading was Michelle deont 16th century philosopher um the I really enjoyed one of his great essays for example is called you know to philosophizes to learn how to die and one of one of the the the the interesting quotes that I
(28:08) know from him is like you know even on the on the highest Throne they sit on their asses right so it's like even they are people and and he approached the philosophy he's like I'm not an expert in philosophy but I am an expert in myself so he used himself as a as the main subject of examination so that was one that I really liked um and and and the interesting thing like you mentioned the um you know that book as well like the the the the endurance right it's not necessarily about sto ISM but when I was
(28:39) reading June you know the the June books the science fiction books by uh by Herbert Frank Herbert Herbert a lot of the you know different philosophies but a lot of stos ism comes into those as well like you could see them and other different books you can as well obviously once your mind is triggered to stoicism you'll see it everywhere but that's something that that I liked and that I picked up on and because I like those books and because I can see the philosophy coming back in there even if they don't mention it necessarily it's
(29:08) still kind of you could see that the lithy of fear you know that's that's that's such a stoic for me Le story kind of way of looking at it right and if can't remember you know by the top of my head but you can Google that you know the listen of Fe in June think that that's one of those really great um um think mantras to tell yourself so for me those are the kind of um those kind of books also M um thinking fast and slow but D Conan you know that mind one and mind two where you give yourself that
(29:39) pause to really analyze things that are going on right so yeah there's so many so many great books and and and I also think it is good to mix it up with different philosophies right to read other kind of styles or really question yourself like you can pick up some Plato or some Socrates some Aristotle I mean like these are not the easiest kind of books to read through but if you like that you can you can go for those as well but I think that those are the kind of the yeah I was surprised to see stoic philosophy come back and like science
(30:12) fiction and and these novels and that's what I like as well to kind of pick up on on those on those moments yeah this definitely it definitely shows up and I agree like once you once you kind of understand the concepts and the and once you have your your mind turned on to stoicism you do start to see it everywhere but um yeah maybe the next maybe the next time we we meet and have this sort of discussion we'll talk about movies and TV shows that that kind of display these things because I think that's another one that
(30:41) um you know you can kind of watch things and and see how certain characters just interact in situations and you can learn that way uh you know just like you would from from learning from a you know historical figure or anything like that yeah and I one last one that WR read just recently is and I didn't read it before the Practical stoic by W fsor I really like that one as well very surprising and and then obviously when you read like I think the ones there's a there's a like a degree of like how
(31:14) academic these books get right so we mentioned Donald Robertson that M bigi and and William Irvine I think that's kind of more of like the Beginner Books I think Ryan holidays even you know is like the the real beginner book book that's kind of like that's where you start then you have that next level and then the next one you have like the inner Citadel by Pier Ado that's a little bit more um to the academic side at least for me you know and then you have like the stoic guide the Cambridge Guide to the stoics that was well above
(31:45) my pay grade I read some of the essays I was like okay that's just not for me but I think that that's the wonderful thing and the the the how like the stoic content is growing that there is something out there for everyone right so if few are listening to this and you feel like I want to get started there is a book out there and just for example reading meditations it can give you so much not just like what you say I want to learn about stoic philosophy but also just about how a man lives right how what kind of struggles they go through
(32:15) so yeah I think that that's the wonderful thing about the sto content that is out there now from the Ancients to the Contemporary works is that there something for anyone everybody out there and go online and you find even more you know go on V at us we have a Blog so you can read about all of and stuff some more yeah absolutely it's it's like I mentioned earlier in this conversation I when I brought up stoicism to my therapist he had actually said because it was like a few a month or something before you know it was his birthday and
(32:43) his friend had given him a book called stoicism for drummers like he's a drummer in a band as like a as a hobby that's just what he does for fun he plays drums and it was stoicism for drummers and I don't even know what the book entails I don't know what's in it but uh just he's like oh yeah sism I think I've heard about that yeah A friend gave me a book about it and I'm just like so yeah they really can be applied to to anything that you're doing um whether that's your you know your
(33:09) your what you do for a living or what you do for a hobby or what you do in your own life because at the end of the day stoicism is is a philosophy for for living it's a philosophy for life so um you know these teachings and these concepts are going to apply to what we naturally do every day um so I do think that again you know it's the more you can you can learn about yourself and uh is always best and I think the fastest way to learn is through reading books because you can condense down a lifetime
(33:41) of learning from the author into a three four five hour you know read depending you know depending on the length of the book but uh which I think is a good Roi so um get out there and I was not a reader for maybe the first 25 years of my life um but that's changed drastically in the last 10 so um and I'm grateful for it so um enjoyed the conversation today this is good yeah I enjoyed it too and even more you know stoic books in in Dutch just to kind of ended from my part you know like the we had a because I'm from the Netherlands
(34:15) but I read more in English I find it very weird to read in Dutch to be honest well not really but like books and but I didn't read and the book is in English right now we had him on the the podcast a few episodes as well Mark tier who a Dutch feed skater we won the Olympic gold medal and for me that was such a great book to see how an athlete a professional athlete uses a philosophy like that to to to to grow in his career right to to and he gives very practical um um guidelines to use it gives like the time that's
(34:48) called the stoic mindset or if you want to read it in Dutch it's called Drive um we has got another book flow but that storic mindset really shows that there so for me that's why it's so nice that so many more people are getting into stoicism and writing about it from their own experiences so that is definitely one book that I would also put up there to recommend people to read um the the the stoic mindset by Mark titer we'll put the link in the you know in the the descriptions because the last name is
(35:15) going to be a little bit difficult to find but that's just one last honorable mention I wanted to put out there before we close it but now I love that and it's great to hear more about your reading Journey here and about how you went through it and also so what really inspired you and you know that what you got out of it so uh awesome conversation man Brendon yeah it was a good time Benny thanks thanks for sitting down and having this little chat with me definitely got my list of books now that I'm GNA go gonna go read at least the
(35:44) ones that I hadn't yet and maybe even rereading some uh because there's a lot of joy in rereading books as well I agree I agree yeah thanks and we'll we'll speak next thank you for listening to the V sto parast podcast if you have enjoyed this episode please consider subscribing rating and leaving a review your feedback will help us reach more like-minded people on the journey to self-improvement if you want to get in touch with us or find more information you can go to vast.com your One-Stop
(36:17) platform for all things stoicism and living better and remember virtue is the only good [Music]